Sorry guys I just saw the post. Good idea Jim! At prices lie that you don't need to be right too often! Thanks for posting Jim!!

Great call Jim!!! Weaver had one heck of a day. Love your analysis!!

Well once again I'm reminded that there are some very smart players on this board. Tonight Bob ran an even but very disappointing 5th. I expected him to finish with some gusto and he simply did not. Jim and Jack thanks for your honest assessment and Ranch thank you for input as always. I plan to continue to post some overlaid horses on here. Your input is appreciated and a great learning experience for me!

Thanks for the feedback!! That is the nature of price horses, always more than one way to approach them. You guys all make good points! I definitely realize there are reasons to bet against him but the price may be hard to pass by. lol
More than anything I'd like to pick up the action on this board as there are some very intelligent players out here.

I know a gentleman named Dan Silver who worked for NYRA. He's an excellent guy and tells me Andy is truly a good man. I've seen moments that make me wonder.

Hey Tom, I am an Andy supporter but no need for criticism of you. I believe we need more players just like you. Shrug it off and keep participating!
Tony

Thanks Tom,
I too am curious about the track code being used. I hope they keep it simple and use ELP.
As far as NY is concerned, any opportunity to improve entries is seen as a plus by me. Today's early P5 featured 4 five horse fields. The P5 still paid a remarkable $1582 for 50 cents but the opportunity for some very low P5's is looming!

Tony

I can't beat that one!! I've instances where the racing secretary will write a race for non-winners at the meet but that one is great.

Can't dispute that Ranch! Don't know if you handicap NY often but it seems to me that riders seldom hook up in duels. It feels like I have difficulty identifying these situations. There is a fine line between winning and losing, and I try not to blur that line. I believe I can improve my bottom line with better pace handicapping but I hesitate not to change much.

Jim and Ranch- this is why I like discussion on this board, you guys really make me think. As I've stated before, even though I manage to beat out a living in this game I see pace evaluation a real weakness in my game. Several of you gave me some real good ideas about pace in a thread a few months ago. Tom made some great contributions there. I'm sorry to say that I'm still not comfortable with how I evaluate pace. When I string P5's together there are always 1 or 2 races pace makes me scratch my head. If any of you see any races in NY where you'd like to discuss pace just post. I'd really like to bounce ideas off each other.

Very interesting discussion and some I face nearly every day. In NY there are a lot of maiden races run. When I evaluate maiden races, I find that not all maiden winners can be treated the same. Winners of 2yo and 3yo races seem more likely to 'improve' while winners of maiden races for older maidens need to demonstrate they can handle moving up in class. To me this difference between maiden races can vary throughout the year. For example, 3yo's competing in 3yo&up races may not be as competitive in the spring as they might be later in the year.
Belmont opens this Thursday. There is a maiden carded as part of both P5's. One maiden race is for 2yo's and the other is for 3yo&up. I feel that we not only need to handicap these races differently but we need to exavluate the winners differently when they race next time.
I find this subject to be real neat and would be happy to discuss any NY examples that come up.

Thanks Conley!!

Dave, does the HDW download into HSH utilize Jim Cramers pace numbers? The same figures available in RS/POS? I'm still spending a lot of time seeing how I can improve the 'pace' portion of my handicapping. Thanks

Tom, I've read some of Mark Cramers work and always felt he offered good logical opinions. I don't recall this topic but I find it interesting to learn. Thanks for sharing it with us!!

Thanks guys!!

My post was all about creating value. My Man Matty broke poorly and never had a chance but the message remains, creating value.
In this P5 sequence a $2 parlay on the winners would have paid $844. But, largely due to My Man Matty losing the P5 returned. $4264 for a $2 ticket. That is 5X's the parlay. And you don't have to be a P5 player to benefit. Check out the parlay vs the DD and P3 payouts as well. Eliminating a low priced horse help your bottom line.

At least Chad Brown didn't beat me today!! lol

Thanks Tom!!

It may Dave, I need to re-read your post and digest the info. I will do that soon and get back to you with my thoughts. Thanks for checking

I want to be clear that I'm not trying sell or convince anyone to use Formulator. The product simply offers some features that 'fit' my way of play. Formulator is simply PP's with some extensions to peripheral information. The product in no ways compares to HSH. But for those of us who enjoy examining PP's its a strong product.