I like a strategy based on contra energy. If I start with early, I try to add late. And vice-versa.

I see. I get what you're saying. Maybe just a seminar with live races and people could toss up picks if they want.

I think my friend was making about $25,000 a year live at the track, not online. I think that is very good compared to what most people could do. He did have his bills paid off. But he was able to make a lot more at a regular job.

Always enjoy listening to people who do this well enough to go pro. Thanks. — Steven

Yes, I had a friend who went pro for a few years. I was always impressed with how detailed and thorough he was in some matters. He eventually decided he could make more money working a 9/5 and that racing was changing, so he went back to the grind.

I'd like to see some contests for typical racing. I remember the old Aqueduct Inner Dirt P4 contests. That was a lot of fun, though a bit long, the entire season. Maybe a one-day contest followed by discussion.

The horses I have seen have all been lousy at geometry and such.

I think it has to do with class, distribution of energy, proximity to the rail, position relative to the other horses vying for the lead, the composition of the track surface and such. The distance traveled is a fairly minor aspect in my opinion.

What about the trainer? — JRand

One trainer told me that if a jockey wasn't going to put his horses forward, he'd find a jockey who would.

One factor is that some horses don't do well next to the rail, especially lightly raced horses. When it comes to turn time, I get concerned about horses too slow at the turn time. I have to have some reason to believe those horses can effectively close a lot of ground.

Yes, Harbour will handle Clipper code with extremely few if any changes. And it runs on today's machines as compiled C code. It also can incorporate a GUI interface and other features from Windows and other modern requirements. It can handle the dBase/Clipper files (Clipper handles more fields than dBase) as well as other database engines. i forgot to mention that my output i mentioned was using input from a Clipper file.

In my opinion, speed is not an issue with Harbour. My output is to HTML files and today I wrote 109 files (all of the races in NA), 49 megabytes, in 2 minutes. That's with 17 sections (bloodlines, jockeys, past performances, special calculations, etc.) for each race, including much of it being color coded. And with many, many complex calculations.

Looking forward to it, Dave.

But on a FoxPro note. My software, which I do not share or sell, is written in Harbour, another dBase offshoot that had Clipper as the in-between. Any half-way decent language can make horse race calculations. While I don't claim to be the greatest handicapper around, I do well enough to post my selections online nearly every day. The cool part is that I can make any modification I want at any time I want.

Tony, spring cleaning can be such an adventure. lol

For us that wager, I've found that the most effective way to predict the finals odds is to utilize the 'will pays' — Tony Kofalt

Good point, Tony. I think in many instances, it not only points to the off odds, but may actually drive the off odds from people tracking this info on computer.

I did awful on Friday, but here's my Saturday results, posted on another board:

Recap of top 4 on 12 races:

1: 3.40 10.60 24.60
2: 8.40
3: 14.40
4: 5.00
Out: 10.20 7.60 7.00 6.20 101.80 19.00

Tony, that was a good call on including CeCe.

Thanks, guys! Very insightful analysis and fun conversation. I don't have an opportunity to have this type of live discussion very often, so I found it particularly enjoyable. You guys were very polite, which helped a lot.

My first time at the track was nearly 50 years ago. I feel quite fortunate that my clueless ways back then are not in my memory today.

I do remember a time when my girlfriend at the time asked why I bet a horse. I said because Estaban Medina was the jockey. Next race, we headed to the windows separately and on return she asked which horse I bet. She got upset because Medina was not on that horse. I told her of course not... he won last race. She was not amused. lol

I would like to participate if I possibly can. I'd be especially interested in differing opinions on the foreign horses.

Tom, I agree with Dave.

Those are pretty good numbers towards a contenders list, but it takes a lot more data plus value toward making final decisions.

Dave, I think there is a right answer to the wrong question in here somewhere.