I am a long time Sartin follower, but older Satin, not the newer stuff. — Tom

I am mostly on the older stuff, too. But I mix in some things from some of the better authors and a few ideas that are not really Sartin from the RDSS people. I throw in a few things I have developed from time to time.

Like I said, I had it Ass-Backwards. — Steven

We just needed Tony to explain it better than I did. :)

I just explained it Bass Ackwards.

We actually had it in our DOS product, the Handicapper's Notebook. (HNB) — Dave Schwartz

Interesting

Not easily available. — Dave Schwartz

This is known as Company Line data. I know it is included in the Multicaps files, but it is not documented... one of those mysterious "reserved for future use" elements. It's the 10 data elements starting at 1,192 in the Multicaps files and I assume in all of the BRIS single file format files. Sorry, I doubt that helps on other data files, but I suspect it is there in most data files. Just probably not documented.

Dave, your greatest asset is your health. Take care of that first and let everything else follow

Yes, thanks, Tony. I probably did not explain it very well.

PP's show which of the top 3 finishers went on to win their next race. I count all the instances of these next out winners. If I recall right, I think the next out winners are italicized in the PP's.

Next out winners are also coming out of what is called a key race if more than one horse has won its next race. I don't have a way of finding any horses except the top 3 finishers. A key race is considered to be a likely source for even more winners.

Sure, Tony. If it leads to any questions, let me know.

Tony, did that answer your question? These were my contenders and how they performed.

Recap of Top 4:

1: 3.60 6.60 12.40
2: 13.00 3.20
3:
4: 8.00 14.80
Out: 4.40 9.60
Ex: 27.30 31.90 29.60 24.50 40.50 5.00
Tri: 4.35
Super: 1.30
Double: 9.50 9.90 30.40 52.20 82.00 11.40
P3: 15.65 30.65 125.30 226.35 68.05
P4: 269.50 536.20
P5: 1,121.80

I didn't get the last two races right.

Would you consider posting a few selections here to help me understand your methodology? — Tony Kofalt

Well, it may be a crazy day at FG, but here are my picks today. I will try to post a recap later.

R1) 5 3 4 1E
R2) 4 6 1 8
R3) 5 1 9 4
R4) 10 3 11 9
R5) 1E 4 6 8
R6 ) 2 4 6 7
R7) 5 2 3 1
r8) 4 6 5 1
r9) 2 8 6 7

I don't know that I would necessarily be representative of Sartin Methodology, but those are my picks anyway.

Hi Ranch, I believe there is a website, paceandcap.com where the Sartin methodology is discussed. You may find it useful — Tony Kofalt

Thanks. I participate there. It's a very good site for Sartin methodology. It does focus primarily on one software product, though. But the host has been very welcoming to me. I have been posting selections there pretty much every day.

I wrote my first handicapping program around 1983, written in BASIC on a TI-99/4A computer, which was fairly powerful for a home computer of the era. Manual input from the DRF. I was just trying to see what I could do with fractional times. I didn't really understand a lot about what I was doing with the output calculations. Now I realize I had calculated what we today call f1, f2 and f3 and I did a few rudimentary factors off of those.

Today, my program is written in Harbour, a language which evolved from dBase and Clipper. My source data is Multicaps files. My output is to HTML, so I can read the files on almost any modern device, including my phone if need be. I've got output for all sorts of things, even silks (to make it easier to watch races). Most of the emphasis is on Sartin methodology, which, in large part, is based around what can be done with those fractional times I was working with in 1983. Needless to say, my program of today is far more advanced. I am still implementing new concepts that I learn or develop.

When I started betting to make a living I became wary of making changes as there is a fine line between winning and losing. — Tony Kofalt

I definitely agree with that!

How do you determine that a race is chaotic? — Dave Schwartz

I measure the early energy and when there are a lot of horses that have similar early energy, the race frequently falls apart. I split the horses into running style categories and when there are horses in only two categories, that's when I look for chaos. There tends to be a lot of horses that vie for the lead and can't hold it.

I like longshot closers in a chaos race for my contrarian urges.

I'm also a diehard contrarian. — William Zayonce

Is there anything in particular that tends to fuel your contrarian fire?

Yep, paper.

It reminds me of the windmill hole at miniature golf. I find it to be a terrible idea. The boxed in horses are boxed in for a reason.

Where a race might be contentious, it can be helpful in horizontals, too. For instance, if you total the top 3 Quirin speed points and get about 18, that race could probably run early OR late. So, include both an early and a late in the horizontal. Just a general guideline, of course.