Dave, I can't say that I do like the plot approach. I just presented it as an alternative to RanchWest topic here. The position of the squares and circles are based on numeric ratings. The product suite also presents the numeric data in a spreadsheet. — Tony Kofalt

I agree.
While I could possibly get something out of viewing a graph in a more... conventional configuration, I just don't connect with this one.

Has anyone ever tried Thorograph? Can you offer any comments on the layout and the data presented? How do you deal with pace in the product? Just curious

Has anyone ever tried Thorograph? Can you offer any comments on the layout and the data presented? How do you deal with pace in the product? Just curious — Tony Kofalt

I have and did for a short period of time due to the information being very expensive but then I created my own ThoroGraph "figure" and now I don't buy them since I do the figures myself

It took a while to get a formula going for it but now I use it for my every day handicapping which I call the "CFigs" which I thought was pretty inventive lol

I also do my own harness ratings which combine Form Class Speed Driver and Overall rating of the horse to create 1 full rating for each horse

Sorry for getting off track but I think if everyone works hard to make themselves better in the game you can go very far in life!

@Tony Kofalt, my long-ago playing partner (who you met at Saratoga about 15 years ago with me) decided that we should test Ragozin's numbers. We got them every day for a year. They were magnificent. The challenge was that someone had to hand-enter them into a spreadsheet for tracking because there was no data file available.

A similar test with TG was (by comparison) very disappointing.
Those two companies are vastly different today, but those were our experiences.

The concepts behind 02X were quite solid, BTW.

I have and did for a short period of time due to the information being very expensive but then I created my own ThoroGraph "figure" and now I don't buy them since I do the figures myself — Conley

How good are those figs of yours?
Any stats?

How good are those figs of yours?
Any stats? — Dave Schwartz

I did test them at Keeneland Fall 2021 I also did do Breeders Cup last year
Final Stats for the 2021 Keeneland Fall Season
Winners on Top: 27/78 (34.6%) Bet: $156.00 Returned: $217.20 Profit/Loss: +61.20
Winners Top 2: 35/78 (44.8%)
Winners Top 3: 48/78 (61.5%)
Winners Top 4: 58/78 (74.3%)

Breeders Cup 2021
Friday
R6: no hits
R7: #6 $3.60 + Exa Tri Sup
R8: #1 $21.80 + Exa
R9: #12 $4.80
R10: no hits

Saturday
R4: 3rd pick won + Exa Tri Sup
R5: no hits
R6: #5 $3.80 + Exa
R7: #8 $10.60
R8: #5 $24.60 (2nd choice but I count still as winner T2) + Exa
R9: #3 $6.20
R10: no hits
R11: no hits
R12: #5 $8.40

8 winners Top 2/14 races
5 exactas 2 trifectas 2 supers

Winners on Top: 27/78 (34.6%) Bet: $156.00 Returned: $217.20 Profit/Loss: +61.20 — Conley

Wow!
If you have a systematic way of producing numbers that results in a flat bet profit, that makes you the only one that I am aware of.

Wow!
If you have a systematic way of producing numbers that results in a flat bet profit, that makes you the only one that I am aware of. — Dave Schwartz

Can you please be a reference when Woodbine calls for the analyst position in the next few weeks?

Tony, I think the visual program I was thinking about was Equisim.

Not familiar with Equisim Ranch. I remember a sheet like product that a friend of mine used. If memory serves me correctly it was owned by Cary Fotius. It incorporated pace into the final numbers. It was named Equi 'something' lol

Did the Fotius program evolve into Predictform at Brisnet?

Can you please be a reference when Woodbine calls for the analyst position in the next few weeks? — Conley

That would need to be a private discussion.

Speaking of "Sheets," this is one of the PP formats CJ used to offer with his program, before TFUS.
It shows the pace and speed figs for pace of race alongside pace of horse, and plots the performance figure, color coded for surface.

According to a quick internet search it is the same product. Good job Tom

Wow- I never saw CJ's performances before. Thanks.